A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed Lady Gaga for a half hour by phone for The Wall Street Journal. We talked about Love for Sale—her new duet album with Tony Bennett—as well as a range of other subjects. My piece went up at WSJ.com on Friday, and the print version is in the paper's arts section today. Some jazz fans are leery of Lady, not because they are familiar with her work but because they see her as narcissistic and inauthentic, someone who plays a jazz singer but doesn't live the art, the history or the anguish. I see her differently. I find her enormously talented and committed to jazz. She's also fascinating as an artist and a woman who throws herself into daunting challenges and works her ass off to achieve beauty and perfection.
The last time I interviewed Lady was in 2014, just before Cheek to Cheek, her first album with Tony, was released. A lot has happened since then. In listening to the new album in past weeks, I've found there's a new maturity in her jazz-pop singing and depth. Her love and awe for Tony has always been evident, but now that he is slipping into a new phase in life, you can feel her pain, as if she's losing a third parent. Since our last conversation, Lady has become an exceptional movie actress, a makeup entrepreneur, a philanthropist and a trendsetting and photogenic superstar, not to mention one of the world's biggest pop stars today. As Tony knows, you can't fake any of that.
Her most recent album, Chromatica, released in May 2020, is an electrifying, opera-sized pop-dance work. If you have eclectic taste, sit with it a few times and you'll hear what I hear. The newly released remix (above) with up-and-coming artists taking on Chromatica material, also is vibrant and exciting. Later this month, Lady will embark on "Jazz & Piano," a nine-day residency with her jazz quintet at the Park MGM in Las Vegas. And there are TV specials coming with Tony on CBS and MTV, as well as the opening of her new movie, House of Gucci on November 24. It's all at a high level.
Yet Lady remains misunderstood by many who seem confused or put-off by her love for fashion, her serial pop personas and her zest for constant change. Older jazz lovers think she's superficial and cold. Which is completely unfair. I find Lady, the artist, as significant as Andy Warhol. No other living artist has Lady's thorough understanding of pop art in all its forms, how to shock, shatter and reinvent art, or her instinctive feel for maximizing its impact on the marketplace.
Unlike Warhol, however, Lady has a keen sense of humanity, a love of people, and enormous kindness. She also works harder than anyone else I know in that space to be exceptional in everything she takes on, including jazz-pop singing. It's a full-time job being Lady Gaga. She performs at a high level and chooses smart projects and stages their release at just the right time. That's an art. She also has a soul. I'm always looking forward to what's next.
On Love for Sale, Lady's voice has ripened and her phrasing shows she has a growing understanding of jazz-pop singing and the emotion that comes with it. While I've posted in the past on my disdain for the American songbook, my criticism has been reserved for young artists who take on these worn, over-recorded standards instead of searching for great lesser-known songs by the same composers and by jazz composers. Tony Bennett was part of a generation that added a jazz feel to the American songbook. These songs belong to him and anyone else who is good enough to sing with him.
The miracle of the new duet album is that when it was recorded in 2018, two years had passed since Tony's Alzheimer's diagnosis. I interviewed him that same year for a WSJ piece when his duet album Love Is Here to Stay, with Diana Krall came out. During our hour together, I found the effects of the disease starting to show—lack of recognition, detachment and a need to be reminded. In watching the recent videos for Love for Sale, taped in 2018, parts of Tony's brain where vocal phrasing and song lyrics are stored were completely unaffected by the disease.
The same is true today, as we can see from last night's 60 Minutes segment on Tony. Off stage, Tony is almost in idle, an artist without his personality. On stage over the summer at Radio City Music Hall, while taping a CBS special for the fall, he became his old self, singing for an hour without lyrics or teleprompters. His reflexes and 70 years of experience, collaborated with his brain to find his talent and everything else he needed to remember and deliver in front of thousands of fans. The fact that Tony's voice remains defiant and right on target at this point is astonishing. The human brain is an enigma, but it's glorious to know that music and song lyrics seared into the brain are resistant to memory loss or are the last to go. The personality may fade away but art remains, fighting until the end.
Here are parts of my interview with Gaga that I didn't include in my Wall Street Journal piece due to space limitations:
Marc Myers: Lady, amazing what how you handled The Star-Spangled Banner at the Presidential inauguration in January. You approached it almost with a sense of swing, holding words longer and then pushing to catch up. It was an extraordinary performance.
Lady Gaga: Well, in terms of the arrangement, I have to hand it to my musical director, Michael Bearden. We worked on that together, and it was something that we conceptually spoke about. I remember when we decided to hold bars longer, for example, the word "there" after "that our flag was still there."
Here's Lady singing The Star-Spangle Banner in January. Listen carefully to her phrasing...
MM: What were you doing during the pandemic in 2020?
LG: There was a period of time when I was concentrating on a collaboration with Global Citizen, the nonprofit, to raise money for the Solidarity Fund for Covid Relief. I worked with entertainment colleagues of mine, as well as Global Citizen and close friends and loved ones in my life. We were able to raise over $150 million in relief. We also put together a television special called One World Together at Home. The inspiration behind raising that money was that I really didn't want to ask anybody in the world to reach into their pockets to donate while they were watching the show. I just wanted them to enjoy the entertainment from artists all over the world.
MM: You also were prepping for House of Gucci, yes?
LG: Yes, for much of the year. Once the lockdown eased at the start of 2021, I was able to film the movie in Italy. That I'm very, very proud of. I was able to work with the legendary Ridley Scott and his wife, Giannina Facio, and our producer. I feel very, very blessed to have been in Italy and thought a lot about if any of this tied back to my Italian ancestry and Tony as well. I was able to plant my feet on the ground every day and know that I was where my family lived before they came over from Italy and worked hard so I could have a better life. I also remembered what Tony used to tell me, "When you feel like you hit the bottom, go deeper. And when you feel like you really nailed it, then go deeper." Meaning emotionally, don't stop. Just keep going deeper in your heart.
MM: How do you choose projects?
LG: I work on what speaks to me. When I first wanted to sing jazz publicly, I think a lot of people were very confused by this. They didn't know me. I've been singing jazz since I was a very, very young girl. When Tony said, "I believe in you," and I knew how much I believed in the music, all bets were off. Choosing a project like Cheek to Cheek or Love for Sale is where my heart lies.
MM: How was the pre-tape in August for One More Time, the CBS special with Tony at Radio City Music Hall coming Nov. 28?
LG: That touched my heart in a way that I don't know, Marc, I could adequately express it to you. To walk a legend off stage and wonder if that will be the last time he's ever going to be under the spotlight. It was (pause)... bittersweet is the wrong word. It's a song that I'll probably write one day.
MM: While on stage, a lot of advance prep?
LG: [At Radio City,] I spent about six hours on just his reveal. I remember telling everyone, "I want it to be clear that I'm opening for Mr. Bennett. And that he should finish this show by himself so that when the show is over, he is having the last word." I worked on that opening, when that curtain hugs him from the side, over and over to get it just perfect for him, because that's what he deserved. He deserved a bed of roses. And on that bed of roses, Tony can go out there and he can sing his heart out. And boy does he sing from his heart. And he loves the public. I've never seen anybody love people as much as Tony. He loves the world. He would do anything to make somebody smile.
MM: How do you feel about jazz?
LG: Jazz is the greatest American music that's ever been made. And I feel blessed that I get to sing it. But I like to cite the great singers that came way before me: Dinah Washington, Etta James, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and, dare I say, we lost her way too soon, Amy Winehouse. And Nina Simone. I feel very, very blessed that I got to have this experience [with Tony] and also to learn. Singing with Tony (pause)... I toured the world for years with him, and I learned that.
MM: What's the one big takeaway for you after working with him?
LG: There are a billion takeaways. I learned very quickly that you always follow the wisest person in the room. And that was always Mr. Bennett. And he empowered me, and my young friends that play jazz, to join him and his band, as well as the orchestra, to create a stage performance that crossed generations. There are 60 years between me and Tony. And we spanned those years, and we did it together. And he was so inviting. But I remember watching him in rehearsal, and I remember my experiences being on stage with him. I always was slightly behind him. I always made sure that he was just in front of me and I never crossed him. And if I did cross him, it was to twirl really fast to get to the other side.
MM: Why?
LG: Because Tony was the leader. And to follow him was the wise way to sing jazz. And then what I realized is that jazz has always been a cry for true liberation. And jazz is communication. So you have to listen to each other, and we got to do this together. So in that pursuit of liberation, how can we listen and respond? If any given musician in the band decided to change just one note in any given figure at any given moment, I knew I'd have to make a move. And I can't make that move if I'm not listening. So it's not about me. It's about us.
MM: The last time I interviewed Tony was in 2018, the same year you recorded the new album. He was already showing signs of Alzheimer's disease. How did you work around that during the recording?
LG: Well, truly, if I'm being completely transparent and honest, Tony doesn't need any pointers from anybody to sing jazz. So as soon as that music starts, he knows exactly where he is. But watching and feeling what was happening, I was uniquely aware that Tony's nature was changing. I had to breathe a lot. I had to listen a lot. I had to watch him on stage for our last performance. I watched Tony like I've never watched him before.
MM: You two have a special relationship that bonds one pop star to another.
LG: I'm grateful for my time with him. And I'm also grateful that I had his trust because as his nature began to change, he felt comfortable with me. And that's meaningful to me as a musical companion and as a friend. That he would trust me with this part of him. He trusted me with this part of him before he had Alzheimer's, and he trusted me with this part of him as his nature began to change. And I have nothing but respect for him. This has been an absolute privilege. And it means (pause)... I almost cried when you first got on the phone earier, Marc, because when you mentioned the Cole Porter song I sing on the album, Do I Love You, I want you to know I was singing to Tony.
JazzWax tracks: You'll find Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga's Love for Sale, here and here.
JazzWax note: Tony and Lady are backed on different tracks by a big band, orchestral strings, Lady's jazz quintet and Tony's jazz quartet. The big band was arranged and conducted by Marion Evans. Songs with strings were arranged and conducted by Jorge Calandrelli.
JazzWax clips: Here's Lady Gaga singing Do I Love You...
Here's I've Got You Under My Skin...